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 LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*

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miSSiLE
{STR}AceRAlmighty
BioStorm
Scarz
{MOC}DrkDragon
Riku
{Delta}
I need a doctor
{LSJ}LAK
{LSJ}Passion
CassusFett
Mandalore
LSJKratos
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CassusFett
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LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 3:23 pm

Scarz wrote:
CassusFett wrote:
I need a doctor wrote:
The video serves as irrefutable proof.


Who cares what this guys thinks he needs a doctor to check his eyes



So suddenly members of the bfc community do not get their views counted for?
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{Delta}
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 3:25 pm

If Acer has a video, please come forth with it. I can await that. Current proof is not enough for LSJ to be convicted of super pistoling because covering your blaster fire with several pistol shots in the middle is perfectly legal. The "tri-shot" affect is the illegal one.
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Scarz
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 3:28 pm

CassusFett wrote:
Scarz wrote:
CassusFett wrote:
I need a doctor wrote:
The video serves as irrefutable proof.


Who cares what this guys thinks he needs a doctor to check his eyes



So suddenly members of the bfc community do not get their views counted for?


I just love how you are going off one member that i have never even seen play
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 3:45 pm

Please read my above post and this one.

I am not afraid to rule against LSJ. While I was IN LSJ, LSJ had a match dispute with TRoT about spawning at the AT-ATs. I ruled AGAINST LSJ's motion for the win or even a retry and gave TRoT the 3-2 victory. It is not a problem for me to rule against a clan I'm even a member of.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of super pistol. Covering your fire takes skill and is perfectly legal. Rapidly switching back and forth, is NOT legal. I think the argument that this didn't affect the battle is null because it doesn't matter if this one kill affected the battle, cheating is cheating. But ask any well established member of this community (no offense to doctor or missle), switching to your pistol is not super pistoling.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 3:53 pm

No hard feelings Delta. However there was never proof that the allegations by LSJ regarding their player not spawning in first map were true.

So In fairness to MNC, because the superpistol allegation is not clear cut, as it was with the first allegation, the map must be replayed again.
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Scarz
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 4:02 pm

I need a doctor wrote:
Scarz wrote:
CassusFett wrote:
Scarz wrote:
CassusFett wrote:
I need a doctor wrote:
The video serves as irrefutable proof.


Who cares what this guys thinks he needs a doctor to check his eyes



So suddenly members of the bfc community do not get their views counted for?


I just love how you are going off one member that i have never even seen play

Thanks scar. I've been playing for more then five years. Not sure how you have never seen me play.

No hard feelings Delta. However there was never proof that the allegations by LSJ regarding their player not spawning in first map were true.

So In fairness to MNC, because the superpistol allegation is not clear cut, as it was with the first allegation, that the map will be replayed again correct?

I have also been playing for 5 years but that's besides the point
There is no need to replay the map becuase we had spectators and the video proves nothing
LSJ wins 3-2 NUFF NUFF
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LSJKratos
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 4:08 pm

If there is no video proof showing we cheated, then the ref gets final say. Which in this case, both sides agreed on having AcerDarth ref it. If he recorded, then he'll need to post a video himself.

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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 4:10 pm

The latter mentioned derrives from a discriminatory clan due process procedure.

Here's the timeline of facts:

-MNC wins 3-2
-LSJ refutes the latter mentioned alleging "no spawn rule" (heresay)
-LSJ wins 3-2
-MNC refutes the latter mentioned alleging "super-pistol rule" (heresay)
-

The remedy: LSJ and MNC must replay the map.
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Scarz
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 4:13 pm

I need a doctor wrote:
The latter mentioned derrives from a discriminatory clan due process procedure.

Here's the timeline of facts:

-MNC wins 3-2
-LSJ refutes the latter mentioned alleging no spawn rule (heresay)
-LSJ wins 3-2
-MNC refutes the latter mentioned alleging super-pistol (heresay)
-

The remedy: LSJ and MNC must replay the map.

But this time there is "video prof" which shows he was shooting then switched to his pistol which is legal
In the first case there was no video and no spectator therefor redo.

This is getting ridiculous
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 4:15 pm

This one had a referee as Scarz stated unlike the first one... and jurisdiction now lies with the referee that was agreed on by both clans which is of course AcerDarth.

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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 4:17 pm

There was no video proof for LSJ, and LSJ got to replay the map. What makes this different if the video is not clear cut? If you recall biostorm was behind the wall, making it very difficult to disprove or approve such act.

I am not stating that LSJ cheated, however out of courtesy the same rule that was applied for the prior map should be applied regarless of the latter mentioned circumstances.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 4:21 pm

Therefore, since there is no clear-cut video-proof as you even said yourself... then the decision is in the referee's hands.

If what you're saying is true, then any video can be posted of something that somewhat even looks like cheating... then the map is replayed regardless of the referee's decision.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 4:29 pm

True, then the question is how to mitage such risks from occuring in the future?

I'm not arguing anything other than procedural justice. If one side alleges a bfc violation and receives a remedy, the other side should receive the same remedy.

However, I agree with Scarz' opinion. The game is turning too legalese. How about the creation of a un-biased arbritrator, or fact-finder for the bfc.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 4:38 pm

Rules are already in place to take care of this. The first dispute was completely different, there was no video showing anything... no referee. Nothing but hearsay. Hence, why the map HAD to be re-played.

This one there was a video in attempt of showing a super-pistol. But even Manda after-wards admitted that Bio did not do the tri-shot super pistol.

Mandalore wrote:
He never stopped shooting and he reseted his accuraccy using the pistol and then continued shooting.

The tri-shot super-pistoling is what is disallowed here as Delta already stated...

{Delta} wrote:
If Acer has a video, please come forth with it. I can await that. Current proof is not enough for LSJ to be convicted of super pistoling because covering your blaster fire with several pistol shots in the middle is perfectly legal. The "tri-shot" affect is the illegal one.


Then there was also a spectator who already previously stated that he saw no cheating take place...



{STR}AceRAlmighty wrote:
lsj cheating? idk where your getting that from i spectated the map and lsj won fair and square tell me how and when did they cheat?

If Manda had indisputable proof of us cheating, then that would over-ride the spectator's word and this argument would've been over long ago. But his proof is questionable... and even he said that Bio did not do the tri-shot super-pistol that is dis-allowed here.

We just await Acer's upload, then a final decision on this whole drawn-out fiasco can be made.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 5:41 pm

What doctor is saying would actually be the fair thing, you guys questioned if the match was done fair, and we redid it, we question if the map is done fair, and you guys bypass it. If you were to not show any bias we should redo it.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 5:43 pm

LSJKratos wrote:
Rules are already in place to take care of this. The first dispute was completely different, there was no video showing anything... no referee. Nothing but hearsay. Hence, why the map HAD to be re-played.

This one there was a video in attempt of showing a super-pistol. But even Manda after-wards admitted that Bio did not do the tri-shot super pistol.

Mandalore wrote:
He never stopped shooting and he reseted his accuraccy using the pistol and then continued shooting.

The tri-shot super-pistoling is what is disallowed here as Delta already stated...

{Delta} wrote:
If Acer has a video, please come forth with it. I can await that. Current proof is not enough for LSJ to be convicted of super pistoling because covering your blaster fire with several pistol shots in the middle is perfectly legal. The "tri-shot" affect is the illegal one.


Then there was also a spectator who already previously stated that he saw no cheating take place...



{STR}AceRAlmighty wrote:
lsj cheating? idk where your getting that from i spectated the map and lsj won fair and square tell me how and when did they cheat?

If Manda had indisputable proof of us cheating, then that would over-ride the spectator's word and this argument would've been over long ago. But his proof is questionable... and even he said that Bio did not do the tri-shot super-pistol that is dis-allowed here.

We just await Acer's upload, then a final decision on this whole drawn-out fiasco can be made.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 5:52 pm

Alright enough already, I didn't fucking super-pistol. Goddamn. Just take the loss and move on, please. Save yourselves any further embarrassment.

Also, I forgot to thank Mandalore for the montage. Cheers. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 6:23 pm

Seven pages long.Whoa.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 6:53 pm

LSJBioStorm wrote:
Alright enough already, I didn't fucking super-pistol. Goddamn. Just take the loss and move on, please. Save yourselves any further embarrassment.

Also, I forgot to thank Mandalore for the montage. Cheers. Laughing

If you guys would have taken YOUR loss in the first place, we would not even be discussing this.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 7:59 pm

CassusFett wrote:
LSJBioStorm wrote:
Alright enough already, I didn't fucking super-pistol. Goddamn. Just take the loss and move on, please. Save yourselves any further embarrassment.

Also, I forgot to thank Mandalore for the montage. Cheers. Laughing

If you guys would have taken YOUR loss in the first place, we would not even be discussing this.

Except that OUR loss in the first place, was actually illegitimate. That was established a while ago, try and keep up. Let's keep the redundancy to a minimum, nice try though.
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 8:06 pm

LSJBioStorm wrote:
CassusFett wrote:
LSJBioStorm wrote:
Alright enough already, I didn't fucking super-pistol. Goddamn. Just take the loss and move on, please. Save yourselves any further embarrassment.

Also, I forgot to thank Mandalore for the montage. Cheers. Laughing

If you guys would have taken YOUR loss in the first place, we would not even be discussing this.

Except that OUR loss in the first place, was actually illegitimate. That was established a while ago, try and keep up. Let's keep the redundancy to a minimum, nice try though.

How is our loss not?
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PostSubject: Re: LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round*   LSJ vs MNC *Grunt Tournament 2nd Round* - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 02, 2011 8:08 pm

Difference. LSJ/MNC map dispute the first time there was zero proof, and by BFC rules must be replayed. However, the second one had a spectator that sided with LSJ and video evidence that supported LSJ because of a misunderstanding of rules. No more needs to be said here. LSJ wins 3-2. MNC will have another shot this is double elimination.
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