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 lsj complaining about their loss

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Mandalore
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PostSubject: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:21 pm

Mandalore wrote:
LSJ spawned, started playing and then Passion lagged out. None of the pc'ed me via xat to stop the battle or even use the mic to talk to me. They played the map legit and after they lost, they came to my cbox to complain about it. Scarz and Lak started complaining and making drama there saying that Passion never played the map, and that is an incorrect info. Kratos never went to my cbox to complain about it.

Cassus spotted Passion via mic during the battle and then he lagged out. LSJ continued playing the battle. He dnt killed him bcuz Passion lagged out. The lag killed him lol.

I am taking as a insult to upload a video and prove my point bcuz I see that my word or any MNC member word is not enough to prove a point. BFC is ruled basically by Fear and LSJ plus Delta. We are playing under the rules that Kratos posted, and we followed it in order to get this legit win. The lag is part of the game and you need to deal with it.

Last year MNC vs AOD, 5v5 two engineers, my 2 engineers lagged out at the same time. I complained about it to AOD(Stern was there), I talked to the BFC staff and my request to re-play the map was rejected because "you played the map and the lag is part of the game". Bleek and Nightwing was those engineers. Now LSJ lost a soldier due to the lag, then they lost "cause of it" and now they are trying to get a redo for the last map even when they played it legit and lost it.

During this year vs FoF, Toa got problems starting the battle(map Polis Massa) and when he got problems, he immediately contacted me via pc at the cbox and via mic. Also, all of his team stopped playing. Then I re-played the map because he told me what is going on and his team do not played the map. Ask Toa about it. LSJ played the map and never tried to contact me even with 1-2 LSJ members in my chat box.

LSJ cannot accept that a 'new-ish low tier clan' of the new generation of this game beated them. This is the first round of the grunt tourney and I am fully secure that you guyz can do a comeback. For next battles, I want a ref(non fear-lsj). I cant believe that LSJ cant accept a legit loss...



We played the game legit, MNC won over LSJ 3-2 in a grunt battle. The right way to do things is following the rules, and we are following it. MNC played under LSJ rules and MNC won.

Good game. Very competitive like always.



-This is the second time of this season that LSJ lost a match. Only MNC and Fear beated LSJ in this season.-


Read carefully and you will understand why lsj is complaining. Use or logic and common sense.




{Delta} wrote:
I have nothing to gain by supporting LSJ. But a video upload does need to be shown. I have clearly stated spectators are NEEDED for these battles to avoid conflict. I believe this is purely a misunderstanding - there was obviously no cheating involved. Please upload the video, if I see even a little bit of evidence Passion was in battle post warm-up timer, MNC wins. If not, it's simply a replay of map. There is no result which would incur an MNC loss.


It cant result in a loss when we actually defeated them. LSj is complaining about his soldier lagged out in mid-game and then they was defeated. Video? No video exists. They played the game and lost. Otherwise, we can do a re-do of that map.



One of my strong points is if they got problems at starting the battle, why they dnt contacted me via mic or cbox? Two lsj members was in my cbox during the battle.

Battle is done, they played it. If you have problems starting a battle, why you dnt told me immediately about it instead of playing? Toa stopped a battle cause of a problem starting the battle and he told me immediately via chat box the problem, why any lsj did dat and more when they have 3 years of bf2 experience? They do not communicated with me because they was playing the battle, as simple as dat.






LSJKratos wrote:
I think you've failed to understand that we're going by BFC rules completely. Passion lagged out prior to the map and never got a chance to spawn in(which as the rules state, the map needs to be paused and wait for the player to come back)... it was a good game, it was 2-2 and it was 50:50 both ways who was going to win the last map. We can take a legit loss... we have shown that in the past. However, we are going to stand our ground on our word that Passion lagged our prior to the game. You're discrediting our word as much as we're discrediting your's

Passion did not have even the slightest chance to fight that entire map. It was over within 2 minutes, if that. It won't take more then 30 minutes to upload that video. That video is nessecary in order to alleviate the confusion over whether Passion was in or not. From what we saw, he never spawned in. From what you guys saw, he spawned in and fought during the map. Now let's put both of our words to the test, and get the video posted.

We respect MNC as much as any other clan out there. This is a misunderstanding between us... and it can be solved by showing the hard backed evidence. We don't want to take a loss knowing that it may have not been legit. I don't think you guys want take a win that may not be legit either. It was a closely contested battle... but the final map was not decisive for the reason that Passion never even got a chance to spawn in.

You guys are disagreeing with our claim as much as we're disagreeing with your's. It won't be solved with words... it'll be solved with the truth. You posses that truth in a recorded video. In order to display the truth, you need to upload it to youtube. Once that is done, then the dispute will be over. If it is shown, that Passion lagged out during the map... it will be a win for you guys. If it is shown that he lagged out prior to the game, the map will be re-done. I think that's fair.

And as for LSJ and FEAR running the BFC? I don't think so. Every clan that actively does matches here is as important as the next. MNC is one of those clans that actively participate here. LSJ and FEAR are as well. Without the combined participation of all the current clans here, this season wouldn't be nearly as fun. There is no corruption here... you're making way too much out of a simple misunderstanding. LSJ believes that Passion didn't have a chance to spawn. MNC believes that he did spawn in...

That's where the conflict lies... there is no other outer-lying conflict. As I stated many times already, the only way to solve this dispute is to get a video posted. If you do not do that, then the last map will have to be re-played. That's as fair as it gets.




Your rules says:
~If at any point someone lags out, only the player that lagged out may come back
~If at any point someone lags out, both sides play on unless it is before the first person spawns (sometimes the server lags users out right as the warm-up timer hits zero, this will require a replayed map)


Passion played the map, started the game, Cassus spotted him at his screen, then he dissappeared bcuz Passion lagged out. Then he came back but all lsj bases was white, so he was spectating/waiting for a base to spawn.

What rule applies for this situation? The first one.



Why LSJ played the map? Because it was a legit battle.

Why LSJ never asked me to stop the battle via mic or chat box? Because it was a legit battle.

Where is the sincerity? LSJ cannot accept a legit loss. MNC gave u a hell and MNC won. It was close 3-2.

Why LSJ complained about his last map loss? Because the lag dropped out one of his soldiers in mid-battle and 'they lost' cause of it.

Why Mandalore need to upload a video about the battle? Because LSJ cant accept a loss even when they played legit and lost it anyway. Video is not needed and more when a clan that the word 'sincerity' is in their banners.

If someone lag out during the game, we need to restart the map? Nope, look at the rules.

LSJ respect MNC? In wat way...? Lol?

Summary: Passion lagged out in mid-game, he rejoined but it was too late. The map lasted long around 6 mins and LSJ never contacted me to stop the battle or re-play the battle. IF you have problems with starting a battle, why you do not contacted the server admin or the other team? LSJ played the battle and they lost. Now they are complaining because they are not used to lose battles. My respects to the BFC staff, but why I need to prove my point when Kratos cant prove his point? No video is needed and more when a battle had been played legit. Read my last long post and you will notice that LSJ played the battle and lost. Then after getting defeated, they started to complain about this instead of stopping the battle and ask for a redo before the battle started(obviously this never happened because it was in mid-game, not at the beginning). Using the common sense/logic, LSJ played and lost. If FoF under Toa leadership quickly contacted me via mic and chat box to redo the map due to a technical difficulties and the whole team stopped playing, why LSJ did not did that? LSJ played and lost...
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:30 pm

You said you video'd it, why can you not post the video? It would completely clear all scruntiny.

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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:39 pm

We never said he lagged out mid-game... Passion never got a shot at even spawning in. He lagged out before he got the chance to spawn in, and joined back right as our last base was taken. I don't understand why you're so hesitant on posting the video. We sincerely believe that Passion didn't spawn in before the first person spawned in. Other-wise, we wouldn't be here arguing about it. I'm beginning to believe that in the video you recorded it shows that Passion did in fact lag out prior to the first person spawning in... and you're holding back on us for that reason. If I'm wrong and the video shows other-wise... then I'll be the first to admit defeat. Until then, I will stand my ground in saying that Passion did lag out before the first person spawned in. We know how to take a loss... but this is different because Passion didn't have a chance at spawning in on the last map of a closely contested 2-2 series that could haveve gone either way.

Now let's cut the arguing, and get the video posted. That will show what happened... plain and simple. Also, you posted showing that BOT super-pistoled in one of your matches with them. This is no different...

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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:41 pm

Also, note that the rule is and always has been if there is a dispute with out a spectator or evidence, the map is replayed. This has always been our policy. This is why I require a spectator.

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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:49 pm

I told you that I didn't get to spawn in or play because I lagged out before the game started. I would not lie about this so your disbelief of my statement being true is somewhat insulting, but what makes it worse is that from my point of view it just looks like you are trying to take a cheap win and run with it. That is where I lost my patience with you guys. I won't disrespect or treat your members unfairly, and if it is ruled that the match is a loss for LSJ I won't hold any grudges against you. I know the truth though, just remember that.
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:59 pm

No video exists.

Make a poll about what you gonna do if you have problems starting a battle and you will see that is obvious to tell the other team to stop and redo the map.

You are evading my point and want a video about it. Now lsj lost and want another chance to face MNC for that battle because they played it and lost.

What do u need to be more clear?

Evidence? They played the battle. Passion lagged out in mid-game(Cassus saw him in his screen and spotted his location at mic) then he disappeared cause of lag. They never stopped it or tried to contact me to redo the battle. They started complaining after they saw the results. Do you need more evidence than that? Not really, you do not want to accept it and that is the main problem here. LJS cant take a legit loss cause of the lag. MNC accepted a loss last year cause of 2 players lagging at the same time(MNC vs AOD) and Stern was there. I complained about it and AOD and the BFC staff decided to dnt redo the map because "the lag is part of the game and you played the game". Now LSJ is in MNC's situation, but with a twist. Everyone here is at the side of LSJ and they dnt want to accept their legit loss. Last year no one complained about videos and proof about my battle, why this drama is taking so long? Because lsj cant accept that they played the battle, passion lagged out in mid-game(after we started shooting each other), then passion cameback and it was late because MNC took all of their bases.


If you have problems starting a game, dnt play the game. Contact intermediately the other team and the server admin. Otherwise, you are looking for a second chance to play the battle and it is unfair bcuz u already played it and lost.




{LSJ}Passion wrote:
I told you that I didn't get to spawn in or play because I lagged out before the game started. I would not lie about this so your disbelief of my statement being true is somewhat insulting, but what makes it worse is that from my point of view it just looks like you are trying to take a cheap win and run with it. That is where I lost my patience with you guys. I won't disrespect or treat your members unfairly, and if it is ruled that the match is a loss for LSJ I won't hold any grudges against you. I know the truth though, just remember that.

You told me that after the battle ended, not at the beginning of it.
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:05 pm

Alright, did you immediately end the map the first time BOT super-pistoled? Or did you continue playing it on?

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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:05 pm

Quote :
You told me that after the battle ended, not at the beginning of it.

Well duh i do not think he could have done this while he was lagging....
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:07 pm

The staff will discuss this without consulting Kratos or CassusFett. But in accordence to the rules, if there is a dispute with no spectator present the map is replayed. We will have an answer by Noon tomorrow.

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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:35 pm

The reason people are siding with LSJ is because your arguments to defend your win lack foundation, and the stories you have given us have been inconsistent. You are looking like a fool because it looks like you are trying to take a cheap win and it is no ones fault except your own. This could have been solved with a simple re-do of the map but you were too quick to try and devour the fruits of your victory and now you are feeling the backlash.
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:47 pm

In all fairness, If there isnt a video/ spectator evidence, then it should be done-over. Thats just what I think, but Im not taking any sides...

And yes, What Mandalore says is true. I did contact him via XAT to let him know one of my players lagged out/ was AFK (I dont exactly remember the exact situation...)

And, If any of you need me as a REF, Dont hesitate me to ask. Ill be willing to help as long as I dont already have anything planned...
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:59 pm

simple suggestion. play the map again. ta daaa!
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:07 pm

Fallen_Blade wrote:
simple suggestion. play the map again. ta daaa!

thats way to complicated for them... lol
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:53 pm

Wait let us think, Where is your evidence that he left before the game? It is not all on us.
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:42 pm

Hmmm well I do know that usually when a player lags out before the map starts, we just sit in our base and not fight. This usually sends a clear message to the opposing team in case they didnt see the person leave the server. There was one instance when we faced LSJ and on Naboo Acid lagged out before the map started, but we went anyways. And when we lost the map, we fully expected to take that loss. However, LSJ showing us courtesy and respect, knew we were down a man and just replayed the map. Thanks btw Smile

The good thing about this situation is that it was a tournament match and not a battle match. Plus, its a double elimination tournament, and neither MNC or LSJ has lost yet. So this wasnt an elimination game. I think if MNC was willing to replay the map, it would be better for their reputation going forward. Do I see it as necessary? I'm not quite sure lol.
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:51 pm

LSJKratos wrote:
Alright, did you immediately end the map the first time BOT super-pistoled? Or did you continue playing it on?
They continued playing on. But there was lots of chatter on XAT before/after each map about the super-pistoling, warnings and such and finally after Mustafar they stopped the battle. One of our members was definetly aware of the super-pistoling and was told to stop it, but he continued on. From what I hear, there was no effort to contact Mandalore or any MNC member on chat or on mic until after the battle ended. I guess you could argue the two cases are different.
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:23 am

Looks like both sides have two different stories of what happened and without video proof or a refs conformation of either sides claim the only logical solution is to do a replay of that map. Arguing about it will get you nowhere.
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PostSubject: Re: lsj complaining about their loss   Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:16 am

We have decided the last map needs to be replayed. Any further inquiries can be PMed to myself. Our rules have always said no spectator if there is a dispute the map is replayed. This is the case here. Topic locked please do not make another.

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